Ultimate Tuning Thread!

[Atrum]

This is all taken from VVV Worms tuning guide. He is a VERY fast racer, and has tuned a lot of cars for a lot of the top drivers out there. This is a long read, but it will make you know what to do tuning. It's not a cookie cutter "change this, then that" guide, rather it explains how tuners really do things. I know Interseptor and myself have always used a very similar methodology (tune, benchmark, test, tune, benchmark, test, etc) to get our rides how we like them. I know it's a long read, but everyone should take the time to give it a read.

WHEEL LIST ADDED

http://myforza.net/f4/rimlist.php?range=128&page=1

This is the tuning guide I wrote a bit ago. If you have anything to add to it let me know and I'll be glad to do so.

Thanks

--VVV Worm

First Rule: Fix the end of the car that has the problem. If it's the rear sliding around don't go adjusting the front. Start with adjusting the back end to stabilize it first. You can then go up or down in unison to stiffen or soften the car.



Tires and Temperature

Getting the correct temperature/pressure combination is like fitting together a big puzzle. Stiffer spring = more temperature and stiffer roll bars = higher temperature and on and on. It all fits together and the tires are the only thing we have direct control of. It's often the most overlooked part of tuning yet it is the most important.

I'll use the recommendations that I have gathered from Pirelli for temperature as some manufacturers differ +/- 10° F. The optimal grip for a tire will differ by what compound you put onto the vehicle. The softer the tire the lower the temperature needed for optimal grip.

GT cars 27.5 to 31.9 psi hot.

Touring cars 29 to 36.2 psi hot.

Temperature range can be from 180° to 210° F. A softer tire will lose grip more rapidly once it gets past 210° than a harder compound.

How does tire temperature relate to pressures?

Higer pressure = Lower temperature
Lower pressure = Higher temperature


This works in small amounts. On FWD cars in the game you can have a really high PSI in the rear and it will slide all over the place.

Adjustments Decrease Understeer Decrease Oversteer
Front Tire Pressure Higher Lower
Rear Tire Pressure Lower Higher


Uniform rules no matter what

Give the tires 3 laps to warm up before looking at telemetry.

You should never have more than 20° between the inner portion of the tire and the outer with the inside always being hotter.

You should never have more than 25° between the front and rear of the car

Alignment

Keep in mind you want no more than 20° difference between the inside and outside of the tire with the inner 1/3 always being hotter (10°-15° are good numbers). Make sure you look when actual load is on the tires going through a corner and the tires have had proper time to heat up (3 laps minimum).

Camber
You always want negative camber

Negative = More inside
Positive = More outside

There is a sweet spot in this setting that usually doesn't change unless you move the Caster around too much once everything is set. You also always want more camber in the front than the rear. Rear camber isn't as necessary as those tires don't turn and I want them with a touch of negative camber when throttle is applied on exit.

Toe
Front toe favors a positive number (more responsive and better turn in) between .1° and .5°. Anything above .3° will cause excessive drag in the straights and gets really bad above 160mph.
Rear toe favors a negative number and becomes more responsive through turns at 1°. However anything over 2° and the back end loses a lot of stability in acceleration and braking. On bumpy tracks any amount of rear toe will cause the car to lose stability and you will have to make corrections even in a straight line costing you time.

EDIT: To clarify you shouldn't use more than .3 degrees in either direction unless the circumstance is extreme.

Caster
Allows the tires to roll with the chassis giving a larger contact patch through a turn. It also helps to balance the temperature of the tires on tracks with predominant left/right turns.

A larger number here will also help absorb bumps on the track while decreasing stability as too much caster causes the tires to wander a bit.

I personally like a really high Caster (5.5-7.0) in the lower classes but on tracks with longer sweeping turns less caster is better.. Most cars aren't sensitive to caster changes.

Adjustments Decrease Understeer Decrease Oversteer
Front Wheel Camber More Negative More Positive
Rear Wheel Camber More Positive More Negative
Front Wheel Caster More Positive More Negative

Anti Roll Bars

Anti roll bars control how much side to side roll a car has. In theory you would want to minimize body roll as much as possible. This is especially true in the higher classes but on occasion in FM3 some body roll helped things. I guess we will see in FM4. The end of this one is long winded but helps to understand it all.

Rear ARB soften = decrease oversteer or increase understeer
Rear ARB stiffen = decrease understeer or increase oversteer


Understanding what the ARB's do

"Limiting the lean of the body is good because it means that when you take a quick set into a turn, that the body isn't still moving sideways after the tires are at their limits. Otherwise you turn in quickly, the tires grip, then the body finally finishes leaning, when it stops, the tires lose grip."

"It limits camber changes. The camber directly impacts the angle at which the tire cross section meets the road and thus controls lateral grip. As the suspension compresses the camber angle generally changes relative to the chassis. With a normal McPherson strut that hasn't been lowered, the camber goes from positive to more negative as the lower A arm swings out straight, and then back to positive as it swings up. That swing up into positive camber is BAD. At that point the chassis is already leaned over so the tire may be starting to roll onto its sidewall. Changing the camber even more positive is just nasty. A big sway bar will prevent the body roll in the first place, and prevent the suspension compression on the outside which causes the positive camber change relative to the chassis."

"Here's where it gets really tricky: If decreasing the size of the rear bar doesn't help enough, the next thing you do is increase the size of the front bar. When the outside front compresses in a corner, it causes the inside front to compress and may actually lift that tire completely off the ground. The car is now sitting on 3 tires and guess where the weight that was on the inside front goes? Outside front? Some of it. The rest goes to the inside rear where we need more grip. The total weight of the car hasn't changed. It's just been redistributed, and a sway bar at one end, actually transferred weight to the other end of the car. Increasing the front bar then translates into more motive grip at the rear, and thus more acceleration"

Springs & Ride Height

From speaking with Dan the spring tuning and adjustments have changed drastically from FM3 to FM4. Every car is now different based upon what it is in reality as opposed to just one generic suspension being stuck under every vehicle like Forza titles in the past. (his direct words were not all suspensions are the same and the same springs weights don't do the same thing on every single car)

Any change in the spring rate will change the ride height due to the rate of spring deflection. They also change the compression(bump) and deflection(rebound) ratings of the shocks.

I personally like to balance the weight of my vehicle with my shocks and leaving it set to the weight % of the vehicle. Aero also affects the weight on the car and needs to be figured in. Some tracks require a softer spring while others require stiffer.
If you use Xtreme Skills formula it figures everything in for you to actually balance the springs. You can then multiply things by 1.1 to increase or .9 to decrease the spring rate and still keep the % correct and balanced. In most cases I like to soften the springs until the telemetry starts to blink red on the spring screen and multiplying it by 5% or 1.05.

Xtreme Skills formula is: (do this for the front and rear) (I think this may be a bit too soft for FM4 and have been multiplying by 1.5-2.0)
Simplified (Car weight+ downforce at front-rear) / 100 x weight % at front-rear / ride height at front-rear x G-force = YOUR SPRING RATE

Also keep in mind that a softer suspension will create more load so if one side of the car is under more stress it MAY benefit from a stiffer setup.

Ride Height
Keep this as low as possible without the car bottoming out



Damping (shocks)

The extension when the tire is unloaded (force back out) = REBOUND
The compression of a shock (making it smaller) = BUMP

Braking
Under braking the front axle will compress while the rear will rebound. As the weight shifts the front axle will have a higher velocity than the rear which is good because the front should settle before the rear. If the front does settle too quickly the tires in the front will lock a little premature and the same for the rear. Brake bias only masks the problem and moves it to a different portion of the track.

Acceleration
Under acceleration the rear axle will compress while the front will rebound (think of a see-saw). On a RWD for example if the rear squats before the torque reaches peak it reduces the time the driver has to feather the throttle as the tires begin to break loose. Try to balance the compression against the required grip of the torque. FRONT REBOUND SHOULD BE FASTER THAN REAR COMPRESSION.

FWD is different in a sense. For acceleration increasing the front rebound will give more grip initially while increasing rear rebound increases a sustained level of grip.



Downforce and Braking

Downforce
More at rear = more understeer and a stable back end
More at front = more oversteer and increased turn in.

More downforce = less speed in straights, more speed through cornering.

Don't forget that any downforce adjustment = a spring adjustment to compensate for the added weight. Especially at higher speeds.

Braking

Braking pressure is a preference of the driver in my experience.
Your brake bias controls understeer and oversteer while braking.

More front bias = more understeer and can bind the front tires up to where you can't trail brake if you prefer to.
More rear bias = more oversteer and can cause the rear tires to lock up faster than the front which is really bad. Will cause the car to spin. This can also be a preference as some like to go early in fast out and some find it easier to brake later and trail brake through the corner. Those two can create a full scale argument.



Differential Settings

Differential settings increase the amount of lock your inside wheel has while turning. At 100% both the tires turn at the same speed which on a rear differential creates oversteer (on FWD it eliminates torque steer). A higher differential will allow you to use the throttle to help turn around a corner but can cause mid-exit oversteer.

On deceleration when you lift off of the throttle one tire locks faster than the other. This can cause the back end to want to kick out over the locked tire in extreme settings (under 15%). A lower setting does help things and the further apart the accel and decel are on the same differential the more unstable the car seems to get in my experience.

There isn't a ton I can find on differential settings so sorry for being so brief here and it is pretty simple. A higher number creates oversteer and a lower number prevents it.







EFFECT ON
VEHICLE – POSSIBLE CAUSES

Straight Line Instability

* Too much rear wheel toe-out.
* Not enough rear downforce.
* Too much front downforce.
* Not enough rear toe-in (under hard acceleration) –presumably for RWD.
* Too much front toe (either in or out) – car darts over bumps.
* Front ARB is way too stiff – car darts over bumps.


Instability Under Brakes

* Front end darts or wanders – too much front brake bias.
* Car wants to spin – too much rear brake bias.


Response

* Car feels heavy and unresponsive.
o Too much downforce.
* Car feels sloppy and is slow to take a set in corners.
o Too little shock.
o Too much body roll (not enough spring and/or ARB).
* Car responds too quickly, is twitchy, and slides easily.
o Too little downforce.
o Too much shock, too much spring, and/or too much ARB.
o Too much tire pressure.


Understeer

* Corner entry understeer – car won’t turn in at all.
o Front
tires not wide enough.
o Too much front roll stiffness – ARBs and/or springs.
o Not enough front bump – shocks.
o Not enough front downforce.
o Too much dynamic camber on front wheels (not enough static negative camber).
* Corner entry understeer – car turns in initially then starts to push.
o Too much front toe-in.
o Rebound too stiff – shocks (not enough droop travel).
o Not enough front downforce.
o Bump not stiff enough – shocks.
* Corner entry understeer – car turns in and then darts.
o Insufficient front suspension travel in either or both directions – shocks.


Oversteer

* Corner exit oversteer – gets progressively worse from the time throttle is applied.
o Too much rear roll stiffness.
o Too much rear camber.
o Too little rear downforce.
o Too little rear toe-in.
o Not enough rear spring, shock, or ARB – allows car to roll over on outside rear wheel.
* Corner exit oversteer (sudden) - car takes its set then breaks loose.
o Not enough rear suspension travel (too much shock in either bump, rebound, or both).


CAUSES – EFFECT ON VEHICLE

Springs

* Too much spring – overall
o Harsh and choppy ride, lack of tire compliance.
o Can’t put power down on corner exit - excessive wheelspin.
o Car slides too much.
* Too much spring – front
o Initial understeer.
o Front end breaks loose in corners.
o Front end breaks loose over bumps.
* Too much spring – rear
o Oversteer when power is applied on corner exit.
o Excessive wheelspin.
* Too little spring – overall
o Car bottoms out.
o Car feels like it’s floating.
o Sloppy response.
o Car is slow to take its set.
* Too little spring – front
o Front end hits ground under brakes.
o Too much body roll on corner entry.
o Initial understeer – car won’t point in.
* Too little spring – rear
o Too much squat under acceleration, and the resultant increase in negative camber.
o Car falls over on outside rear wheel causing power-on oversteer.


Anti-Roll Bars

* Too much ARB – overall
o Very sudden turning response and little feel.
o Car slides or skates instead of taking its set.
o May dart over one wheel bumps or diagonal bumps.
* Too much ARB – front
o Corner entry understeer that gets progressively worse.
o Steady state understeer in the middle of sweeping turns.
* Too much ARB – rear
o Corner exit oversteer when throttle is applied.
o Excessive sliding coming out of corners.
* Too little ARB – overall
o Car is sloppy and lacks response.
o Car is slow to transition, especially in chicanes and esses.
o Car rolls too much resulting in too much dynamic, positive camber and the resultant loss of cornering power due to decrease in tire traction.
* Too little ARB – front
o Car rolls over onto outside tire on corner entry then ‘washes out’ (understeers).
o Car lacks steering response and is slow to change direction.
* Too little ARB – rear
o Back end doesn’t want to rotate on corner exit under power (difficult to throttle steer).


Shock Absorbers

* Too much shock – overall
o Very sudden car with harsh ride, sliding, and wheel patter.
o Car crashes over road surface irregularities.
* Too much rebound adjustment
o Wheels do not return to road surface quickly after displacement.
o Inside wheel pulls off the road surface in a corner.
o Lack of tire compliance over bumps and surface undulations.
o Car may be jacked down in long corners.
* Too much bump adjustment
o Initial reaction to bumps and curbs is harsh.
o Initial chassis roll slow to develop.
o Car slides rather than sticks.
o Driven wheels hop when the power is put down.
* Too little shock – overall
o Car floats a lot in ride and oscillates after bumps (underdamped).
o Slow and sloppy response.
o Chassis rolls too quickly.
* Too little rebound adjustment
o Oscillates after bumps.
o Doesn’t put the power down well.
* Too little bump adjustment
o Initial bump reaction soft.
o Car dives and squats a lot under brakes and under power.
o Car rolls quickly and falls over outside tires – front tire on corner entry and rear tire on exit.


Wheel Alignment

* Front toe-in – too much
o Car darts over bumps, under the brakes, and during corner entry.
o Car won’t point into corners.
* Front toe-out – too much
o Car wanders under the brakes.
o Straight line instability especially over one wheel and diagonal bumps.
o Car may point into corners then refuse to take a set
o Understeer as a result of tire scrub in long corners.
* Rear toe-in – too much
o Rear feels light and unstable on corner entry.
o Car slides a bit in corners rather than rolling freely.
* Rear toe-in – too little
o Power on oversteer during corner exit.
* Rear toe-out – any
o Power oversteer during corner exit.
o Straight line instability.
* Front wheel caster – too much
o Excessive physical steering effort (probably non-applicable with the XBOX controller)
* Front wheel caster – too little
o Too little steering feel and feedback (also probably non-applicable with the XBOX controller)
* Camber – too much negative
o Inside of tire will be hotter than the rest and wear faster.
o Front tires – reduced braking capacity (dive)
o Rear tires – reduced acceleration capacity (squat)
* Camber – too much positive
o Outside of tire will be hotter than the rest and wear faster.
o Rear tires – corner exit oversteer and reduced tire traction.
o Rear tires - If extreme may cause corner entrance instability.
o Front tires – too much body roll and understeer after car turns in.


Tires

* Too much tire pressure
o Harsh ride.
o Excessive wheel patter, sliding and wheelspin.
o High temperature at center of tire.
* Too little tire pressure
o Soft and mushy response.
o High tire temperatures at inner and outer edges.
o Reduced contact patch

[DeadSockPuppet]

I'm gonna have to read thru this and make some changes to my cars, hopefully before the E class tourney, but probably not until I'm making D class cars. Thanks for the info Atrum!

[Atrum]

I'm gonna have to read thru this and make some changes to my cars, hopefully before the E class tourney, but probably not until I'm making D class cars. Thanks for the info Atrum!

Yeah, it's much better to tune this way than using a calculator. I've seen tuning calculators make cars slower than they were beforehand. I should be on tonight, maybe after everyone does some racing we can go over tuning a bit.

[S7 Interseptor]

The whole thing is a very good read. The most helpful is the bottom section for those looking to skim.

Cause and Effect. Really good info here:

EFFECT ON
VEHICLE – POSSIBLE CAUSES

Straight Line Instability

* Too much rear wheel toe-out.
* Not enough rear downforce.
* Too much front downforce.
* Not enough rear toe-in (under hard acceleration) –presumably for RWD.
* Too much front toe (either in or out) – car darts over bumps.
* Front ARB is way too stiff – car darts over bumps.


Instability Under Brakes

* Front end darts or wanders – too much front brake bias.
* Car wants to spin – too much rear brake bias.


Response

* Car feels heavy and unresponsive.
o Too much downforce.
* Car feels sloppy and is slow to take a set in corners.
o Too little shock.
o Too much body roll (not enough spring and/or ARB).
* Car responds too quickly, is twitchy, and slides easily.
o Too little downforce.
o Too much shock, too much spring, and/or too much ARB.
o Too much tire pressure.


Understeer

* Corner entry understeer – car won’t turn in at all.
o Front
tires not wide enough.
o Too much front roll stiffness – ARBs and/or springs.
o Not enough front bump – shocks.
o Not enough front downforce.
o Too much dynamic camber on front wheels (not enough static negative camber).
* Corner entry understeer – car turns in initially then starts to push.
o Too much front toe-in.
o Rebound too stiff – shocks (not enough droop travel).
o Not enough front downforce.
o Bump not stiff enough – shocks.
* Corner entry understeer – car turns in and then darts.
o Insufficient front suspension travel in either or both directions – shocks.


Oversteer

* Corner exit oversteer – gets progressively worse from the time throttle is applied.
o Too much rear roll stiffness.
o Too much rear camber.
o Too little rear downforce.
o Too little rear toe-in.
o Not enough rear spring, shock, or ARB – allows car to roll over on outside rear wheel.
* Corner exit oversteer (sudden) - car takes its set then breaks loose.
o Not enough rear suspension travel (too much shock in either bump, rebound, or both).


CAUSES – EFFECT ON VEHICLE

Springs

* Too much spring – overall
o Harsh and choppy ride, lack of tire compliance.
o Can’t put power down on corner exit - excessive wheelspin.
o Car slides too much.
* Too much spring – front
o Initial understeer.
o Front end breaks loose in corners.
o Front end breaks loose over bumps.
* Too much spring – rear
o Oversteer when power is applied on corner exit.
o Excessive wheelspin.
* Too little spring – overall
o Car bottoms out.
o Car feels like it’s floating.
o Sloppy response.
o Car is slow to take its set.
* Too little spring – front
o Front end hits ground under brakes.
o Too much body roll on corner entry.
o Initial understeer – car won’t point in.
* Too little spring – rear
o Too much squat under acceleration, and the resultant increase in negative camber.
o Car falls over on outside rear wheel causing power-on oversteer.


Anti-Roll Bars

* Too much ARB – overall
o Very sudden turning response and little feel.
o Car slides or skates instead of taking its set.
o May dart over one wheel bumps or diagonal bumps.
* Too much ARB – front
o Corner entry understeer that gets progressively worse.
o Steady state understeer in the middle of sweeping turns.
* Too much ARB – rear
o Corner exit oversteer when throttle is applied.
o Excessive sliding coming out of corners.
* Too little ARB – overall
o Car is sloppy and lacks response.
o Car is slow to transition, especially in chicanes and esses.
o Car rolls too much resulting in too much dynamic, positive camber and the resultant loss of cornering power due to decrease in tire traction.
* Too little ARB – front
o Car rolls over onto outside tire on corner entry then ‘washes out’ (understeers).
o Car lacks steering response and is slow to change direction.
* Too little ARB – rear
o Back end doesn’t want to rotate on corner exit under power (difficult to throttle steer).


Shock Absorbers

* Too much shock – overall
o Very sudden car with harsh ride, sliding, and wheel patter.
o Car crashes over road surface irregularities.
* Too much rebound adjustment
o Wheels do not return to road surface quickly after displacement.
o Inside wheel pulls off the road surface in a corner.
o Lack of tire compliance over bumps and surface undulations.
o Car may be jacked down in long corners.
* Too much bump adjustment
o Initial reaction to bumps and curbs is harsh.
o Initial chassis roll slow to develop.
o Car slides rather than sticks.
o Driven wheels hop when the power is put down.
* Too little shock – overall
o Car floats a lot in ride and oscillates after bumps (underdamped).
o Slow and sloppy response.
o Chassis rolls too quickly.
* Too little rebound adjustment
o Oscillates after bumps.
o Doesn’t put the power down well.
* Too little bump adjustment
o Initial bump reaction soft.
o Car dives and squats a lot under brakes and under power.
o Car rolls quickly and falls over outside tires – front tire on corner entry and rear tire on exit.


Wheel Alignment

* Front toe-in – too much
o Car darts over bumps, under the brakes, and during corner entry.
o Car won’t point into corners.
* Front toe-out – too much
o Car wanders under the brakes.
o Straight line instability especially over one wheel and diagonal bumps.
o Car may point into corners then refuse to take a set
o Understeer as a result of tire scrub in long corners.
* Rear toe-in – too much
o Rear feels light and unstable on corner entry.
o Car slides a bit in corners rather than rolling freely.
* Rear toe-in – too little
o Power on oversteer during corner exit.
* Rear toe-out – any
o Power oversteer during corner exit.
o Straight line instability.
* Front wheel caster – too much
o Excessive physical steering effort (probably non-applicable with the XBOX controller)
* Front wheel caster – too little
o Too little steering feel and feedback (also probably non-applicable with the XBOX controller)
* Camber – too much negative
o Inside of tire will be hotter than the rest and wear faster.
o Front tires – reduced braking capacity (dive)
o Rear tires – reduced acceleration capacity (squat)
* Camber – too much positive
o Outside of tire will be hotter than the rest and wear faster.
o Rear tires – corner exit oversteer and reduced tire traction.
o Rear tires - If extreme may cause corner entrance instability.
o Front tires – too much body roll and understeer after car turns in.


Tires

* Too much tire pressure
o Harsh ride.
o Excessive wheel patter, sliding and wheelspin.
o High temperature at center of tire.
* Too little tire pressure
o Soft and mushy response.
o High tire temperatures at inner and outer edges.
o Reduced contact patch

I have learned pretty much all of this by trial and error, reading the in-game descriptions and help from friends with more knowledge than me (read Apex).

I have become a much better racer since I have started tuning my own rides. I have a much better understanding for what is going on with the cars and how they react at the limit.

My best advice for someone who is really serious about learning is to put in the time and do it yourself. I am always happy to help and spend hours tuning every week. You will be much happier in the end, once you learn the in's and outs.

[Atrum]

Yup, I was pleasantly surprised when I found this. I had been planning on typing out a tuning guide but there's so much to list and word correctly so it makes sense. This goes over a whole lot, and is easy to understand.

[S7 Interseptor]

The most helpful thing I ever did was just load up my car and select "test drive", pick a track and start testing while talking to Apex. I already had the basics down but I did not understand the finer points like Caster, Camber and Toe and I was tuning by feel, not telemetry. I just sat there and raced lap after lap asking question and making small adjustments. Then race a few more laps and check the settings again.

Not only was I much more knowledgeable afterwards, I was floored how small changes effected the cars performance. Before, when I was using the calculator, if a car was no good after "tuning" I would just move on. But now I have learned that most every car can be tamed. Especially if it's close. I can nail down most every car now with just a little time tuning.

[DeadSockPuppet]

Lot of good stuff in there... most of which I don't understand.

The tires make sense. I like my tires around 30psi when they're warm so I usually start them with around 28psi. I also try to get my tires up to temp and my preferred psi before I really work on testing the handling and going for hot laps. I use the telemetry to get these set right but I don't really watch the temp across the tires, rather just that they get warm and start holding the 30 psi that I like. This is something I'll have to possibly start watching.

The springs and ARB (kinda) seem like common sense, but most of the other stuff just doesn't make sense to me. I've tried reading the in game descriptions but it seems like gibberish to me. I guess I'll have to take one of the settings at a time and tinker with it to see how it works. Most likely I'll try kicking the settings to the extremes (or more dramatically than needed) so I can "feel" what the changes do and go from there.

I know that I also need to get my driving a little more under control and minimize my erratic moments to really make this effective. It's just like golf, you can have the best equipment and training but if you're swing is crap you're game will be too. I feel a bit more comfortable now that I've put in about 1-1.5 seasons in FM3 and a season in FM4. Knowing the tracks is the biggest thing and now that I have a little more experience I'm starting to learn the tracks a little better so that I don't go Big Bearing everyone.

Also, I appreciate Kenny and Zak riding side-by-side with me yesterday so that I could get a little more comfortable driving in traffic. I have a tendency to be like "Oh God, another car!" and then I trade paint with them or the wall as I kinda freak out and suddenly lose all ability to drive straight. Like Zak said, the better/front of the pack drivers will watch my erratic driving and know when to make their moves so that they don't get hit, I just need to stop being my own worst enemy and keep myself from kissing walls and offroading.

[Lickwid Apex]

Like puppet, lap traffic effects my driving style. When I'm in front I tend to lax in my laps instead of pretending I'm hotlapping. When I'm behind I'm much faster. It could be the race line, or it could be the thrill of the hunt, I'm not entirely sure.

As far as tuning goes. I spent years of Gran Turismo releases and special editions racing and racing and racing the computer. The professional settings in that series were brutal. The manual that came with those games never had controller settings or system warnings about epileptic seizures. They were laced with racing nuance. Vehicle dynamics from slip angle based on tire width to drive train effects on body roll and compression/rebound effects of shocks. Reading and racing and countless hours of getting my collective ass handed to me by the AI was where I learned pretty much everything about racing sim tuning.

I wish there was a way I could share the GT5 limited edition book labeled Apex. (fitting title). Its crammed with tuning lore and science so in depth it appears to be magic when its implemented correctly. Luckily GT5 and FM4 share many many physics related similarities. It allows me to use the knowledge I have to wrench my way around the virtual garage.

The one characteristic that throws me sometimes with FM4 is the tires. Not temp or adjusting the contact patch under hard braking or cornering. Tis those freakin\' side walls that bend... I usually end up spending points in lighter/larger wheels so the d@mn tires don't introduce unchecked body transition in switch backs.

Sure love racing. We'll be seeing some of you this weekend I'm sure.

[Atrum]

I really want to get some more group races in, see what tracks my handling cars just cannot hang on.

[DeadSockPuppet]

I really want to get some more group races in, see what tracks my handling cars just cannot hang on.

Might be up for some of this tonight. We'll have to see what's going on around the house here but I might try and jump on for a bit and most likely I'll be tuning and testing if I do.

[Atrum]

Any idea what time? I'll likely be on tonight as well.

[DeadSockPuppet]

Um, if I'm on it will probably after the wife falls asleep, probably no earlier than like 9:30-10pm EST. If I'm not going to be on or it it might be later I'll try to leave a message for you on here or XBL.

[Atrum]

Sounds good. I'll probably be on between 9-10EST to start. And will play until pretty late.

[DeadSockPuppet]

Sounds good. I'll probably be on between 9-10EST to start. And will play until pretty late.

Of course! Daylight savings ends tonight so I get to do the 2 o'clock hour twice! AWESOME!

[DeadSockPuppet]

Looks like I'll be on closer to 10pm. I want to see how my most recent tweaks to the Corvair work out.

[S7 Interseptor]

If anyone needs help racing or tuning for the D-Class Tourney in 2-weeks just hit me up. I will be on a good bit in between Z3 and H4. If you are interested in learning how to tune I can help you out.

[Atrum]

I already worked out 3-4 tunes while working on E-class. I'll be testing them off and on this weekend when I take breaks from Halo (or have to be able to pause the game)

[S7 Interseptor]

I have 3-4 cars built too. None of them tuned yet. I am still sorting out what car to use and testing a lot of different builds.

[Atrum]

I have 3-4 cars built too. None of them tuned yet. I am still sorting out what car to use and testing a lot of different builds.

Mine have the general tuning done. Just tweaking now. Trying to decide if I want to keep going back to the Forza 2 days - terrifying launch/acceleration.

[S7 K1ll3rKlown]

It wasn't this complicated to tune my real cars...Jeez!

[S7 Interseptor]

It wasn't this complicated to tune my real cars...Jeez!

You could always pay me like you do your mechanic. Then it would be just as easy.

[S7 K1ll3rKlown]

It wasn't this complicated to tune my real cars...Jeez!

You could always pay me like you do your mechanic. Then it would be just as easy.

Present setup: Bama extreme performance 93 octane racing tune w/ ZEX Wet Injected Nitrous
Got the skills and equipment in your basement to tune this beast?

[S7 Interseptor]

It wasn't this complicated to tune my real cars...Jeez!

You could always pay me like you do your mechanic. Then it would be just as easy.

Present setup: Bama extreme performance 93 octane racing tune w/ ZEX Wet Injected Nitrous
Got the skills and equipment in your basement to tune this beast?

No, but I have the skills and tools in Forza. That is what I was referring to. Pay me to tune your Forza cars, if it is too complicated.

[S7 K1ll3rKlown]

It wasn't this complicated to tune my real cars...Jeez!

You could always pay me like you do your mechanic. Then it would be just as easy.

Present setup: Bama extreme performance 93 octane racing tune w/ ZEX Wet Injected Nitrous
Got the skills and equipment in your basement to tune this beast?

No, but I have the skills and tools in Forza. That is what I was referring to. Pay me to tune your Forza cars, if it is too complicated.

LOL, oh...
pay you like I did for the trivia post.

[Atrum]

This is starting to sound terribly wrong/illegal.

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